[ubuntu-us-mi] City/Regrional LoCo's

[Mark Jones]

While states represent apparently very easy administrative boundaries, there are exceptions; especially when it comes to the impact of big cities. Big cities can especially distort representation and/or geographical effort. For examples, I'm sure the folks down in Carbondale, IL feel and benefit a lot more from the St. Louis/MO LoCo than from the Chicago LoCo or the Chicago centric IL LoCo. Big states such as CA and TX with many very large metro areas also deserve special consideration. On a local example, there are many in western or northern Michigan who feel those in the Detroit metro area are often very myopic. (Not accusing, just making note of long standing regional perspectives.)

Mark



----- Original Message ----

From: Robert Citek <robert.citek at gmail.com>
To: Ubuntu Michigan Local Community Team <ubuntu-us-mi at lists.ubuntu.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 6:38:53 PM
Subject: Re: [ubuntu-us-mi] Request for Disks

Greg, I have not been too active in the LOCO by attending meeting and
such, but have been doing a lot of install festivals and advocate at
all times. I have never made a big deal out of with the LOCO and maybe
I should taken pictures and all that to show West Side Rep.

Yes, yes, YES! Please do let us all know what is happening in your area. We
are the Michigan LoCo, not the AnnArbor/Detroit LoCo. Not only does it help
the group to justify our status as an official LoCo, but there's other
west-siders who may not know what's going on over there because all the talk
here is by the east-siders. Represent!

At OSCON this year, one of the presenters (Jono?) made the point that
LoCo's were inteded to be state-wide and not city-specific nor even
region-specific. I forget the rationale, but I do remember that
comment. Despite the best-intentions, you can still find city and
region-specific LoCo's on the LoCo pages.
Regards,
- Robert
--
ubuntu-us-mi mailing list
ubuntu-us-mi at lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-mi

[Wolfger]

I agree 100%. The Michigan LoCo gatherings that currently happen are easier
for people from Toledo, Ohio to attend than for most of the state of
Michigan. I know there's an active LUG at Michigan Tech, for example... It's
a good 10+ hour drive for any of them to make it to the Detroit or Grand
Rapids areas. They're much more likely to find value in a Wisconsin LoCo
than a Michigan one.

It's great to say "we can have regional meetings in different locations",
but what that really means is:
1) we need leadership willing to travel, or we need leaders from each area
(at which point you effectively have multiple LoCos)
2) if there are no meetings in a particular region, the people from that
region will tend to feel left out, and not really part of the group. (I
think we already see some degree of that)

I think it makes perfect sense to have, say, a Massachusetts LoCo that
covers that whole tiny state. For Michigan, I think we should at the very
least have a UP and LP split. I think we could support East and West groups,
too.

That being said, let's try to make the best of what we've got. Canonical
wants to have one LoCo per state, so let's see how well we can rock this
joint within that constraint. If we can't get multiple regional meetings
going, then the argument to form multiple groups is very weak, no? ;-)

Post by Mark Jones
While states represent apparently very easy administrative boundaries,
there are exceptions; especially when it comes to the impact of big cities.
Big cities can especially distort representation and/or geographical
effort. For examples, I'm sure the folks down in Carbondale, IL feel and
benefit a lot more from the St. Louis/MO LoCo than from the Chicago LoCo or
the Chicago centric IL LoCo. Big states such as CA and TX with many very
large metro areas also deserve special consideration. On a local example,
there are many in western or northern Michigan who feel those in the Detroit
metro area are often very myopic. (Not accusing, just making note of long
standing regional perspectives.)
Mark
----- Original Message ----

From: Robert Citek <robert.citek at gmail.com>
To: Ubuntu Michigan Local Community Team <ubuntu-us-mi at lists.ubuntu.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 6:38:53 PM
Subject: Re: [ubuntu-us-mi] Request for Disks

Greg, I have not been too active in the LOCO by attending meeting and
such, but have been doing a lot of install festivals and advocate at
all times. I have never made a big deal out of with the LOCO and maybe
I should taken pictures and all that to show West Side Rep.

Yes, yes, YES! Please do let us all know what is happening in your

area. We

are the Michigan LoCo, not the AnnArbor/Detroit LoCo. Not only does it

help

the group to justify our status as an official LoCo, but there's other
west-siders who may not know what's going on over there because all the

talk

here is by the east-siders. Represent!

At OSCON this year, one of the presenters (Jono?) made the point that
LoCo's were inteded to be state-wide and not city-specific nor even
region-specific. I forget the rationale, but I do remember that
comment. Despite the best-intentions, you can still find city and
region-specific LoCo's on the LoCo pages.
Regards,
- Robert
--
ubuntu-us-mi mailing list
ubuntu-us-mi at lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-mi

--
ubuntu-us-mi mailing list
ubuntu-us-mi at lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-mi

[Jeff Hanson]

Post by Wolfger
That being said, let's try to make the best of what we've got. Canonical
wants to have one LoCo per state, so let's see how well we can rock this
joint within that constraint. If we can't get multiple regional meetings
going, then the argument to form multiple groups is very weak, no? ;-)

AOL is not the Internet and Ubuntu is not the entirety of Linux. I
think distro-specific meetings are not really useful. Distances are
too great and travel costs too high. But with Penguicon in the
Detroit area there isn't anything convenient for the U.P. The whole
region of NE Wisconsin, Minnesota, and the closest section of Ontario
are relatively low population density.

Just as a theoretical exercise I created a Google map as a travel study:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=
102355251628898719373.0004558981f897105f934

The distances I found are below. The "possible conference location"
cities I listed all appear to have broadband available through
Charter. A lot are tourist towns with lodging available and are
located on major highways.

Michigan Tech to:
Ironwood = 110mi (2h 32m)
Marquette = 98mi (2h 12m)
Munising = 141mi (3h 6m)
Newberry = 203mi (4h 21m)
Saint Ignace = 260mi (5h 29m)
Sault Ste Marie = 262mi (5h 29m)

Sault Ste Marie to:
Ironwood = 308mi (6h 15m)
Marquette = 165mi (3h 22m)
Munising = 121mi (2h 23m)
Newberry = 67mi (1h 20m)
Saint Ignace = 52mi (49m)

Alpena to:
Ironwood = 409mi (8h 17m)
Marquette = 265mi (5h 24m)
Munising = 221mi (4h 25m)
Newberry = 172mi (3h 28m)
Saint Ignace = 104mi (2h 8m)
Sault Ste Marie = 155mi (2h 53m)

Saint Ignace to:
Traverse City = 174mi (3h 6m)
Novi = 329mi (4h 52m)

[T. Sandy Matthews]

Post by Jeff Hanson

Post by Wolfger
That being said, let's try to make the best of what we've got. Canonical
wants to have one LoCo per state, so let's see how well we can rock this
joint within that constraint. If we can't get multiple regional meetings
going, then the argument to form multiple groups is very weak, no? ;-)

AOL is not the Internet and Ubuntu is not the entirety of Linux. I
think distro-specific meetings are not really useful. Distances are
too great and travel costs too high. But with Penguicon in the
Detroit area there isn't anything convenient for the U.P. The whole
region of NE Wisconsin, Minnesota, and the closest section of Ontario
are relatively low population density.

OK I just can't let you get away with saying Ubuntu is like AOL. I would
say AOL is probably the worst choice for an ISP possible, while Ubuntu
is probably the leading Linux distro available at this time. AOL does
have a nice instant messenger though. ;)

- --
T. Sandy Matthews
ubuntujock at groko.gotdns.com

[Wolfger]

On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 4:49 PM, T. Sandy Matthews

AOL does have a nice instant messenger though. ;)

You mean AIS (AOL Instant Spammer)? I've completely stopped logging in
to that service because the vast majority of the messages I get from
there are spam.

...but we're getting off topic :-)