Discussion:
[ubuntu-us-mi] wtf?!
t jagoda
2009-04-16 22:04:55 UTC
Permalink
So, I just received my mail from the FSF telling me that they're kicking off
their anti-windows 7 campaign, and that this time it's based off the "Seven
Deadly Sins."

When is the FSF going to stop damaging our Open Source credibility? Having
people walking around in hazmat suits with "Anti-Vista" signs was bad
enough, now're were going to go and tick off a whole religious sector of
people by compairing their beliefs to a Microsoft operating system.

I know personally, that if my boss saw a man in a hazmat suit telling him to
use Linux, he'd dismiss it straight away and think we were all wackjobs. Am
I alone in this opinion, or do you fine fellows feel equally as frustrated
by the FSF and it's anti-campaign antics?
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Robert Citek
2009-04-16 23:36:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by t jagoda
I know personally, that if my boss saw a man in a hazmat suit telling him to
use Linux, he'd dismiss it straight away and think we were all wackjobs. Am
I alone in this opinion, or do you fine fellows feel equally as frustrated
by the FSF and it's anti-campaign antics?
You're not alone.

BTW, most non-linux users think most linux users are wackjobs already.

Regards,
- Robert
t jagoda
2009-04-17 00:06:29 UTC
Permalink
I'm glad I didn't renew my FSF membership this year - I feel my contribution
to the EFF is much more well spent.
Post by t jagoda
Post by t jagoda
I know personally, that if my boss saw a man in a hazmat suit telling him
to
Post by t jagoda
use Linux, he'd dismiss it straight away and think we were all wackjobs.
Am
Post by t jagoda
I alone in this opinion, or do you fine fellows feel equally as
frustrated
Post by t jagoda
by the FSF and it's anti-campaign antics?
You're not alone.
BTW, most non-linux users think most linux users are wackjobs already.
Regards,
- Robert
--
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Wolfger
2009-04-17 01:56:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by t jagoda
I'm glad I didn't renew my FSF membership this year - I feel my contribution
to the EFF is much more well spent.
I feel your contribution to EFF is much more well spent too.
FSF has noble goals, but they are fanatical, and fanaticism just
doesn't go over well. I really wish they'd go away and quit hurting
the FOSS cause...
--
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
http://twitter.com/wolfger
http://identi.ca/wolfger

The world is a mess, and I just... need to rule it.
Robert Citek
2009-04-17 03:40:59 UTC
Permalink
You might want to let the FSF know about your decision. If they
change their ways, you could reconsider. If they don't, then it
confirms your decision.

Regards,
- Robert
Post by t jagoda
I'm glad I didn't renew my FSF membership this year - I feel my contribution
to the EFF is much more well spent.
Greg Grossmeier
2009-04-17 14:13:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Citek
You might want to let the FSF know about your decision. If they
change their ways, you could reconsider. If they don't, then it
confirms your decision.
I, too, should make my decision to not renew known.

I see this as part of a larger institutional problem at the FSF. I
have witnessed an FSF employee completely derail a valid discussion on
a mailing list by replying to EVERY SINGLE email that said "linux"
with a 3 paragraph why-you-need-to-say-GNU/Linux reply. Now, I can
sympathize with wanting others to say GNU/Linux, but, mailing list
etiquette is also important. This list was also for a natural friend
organization of the FSF, but since this employee did this, and did it
in an unfriendly way, the relationship between these two organizations
is now anything but friendly.

Maybe someone should start a "Quit Making Us Look Bad" campaign to get
the FSF to change their ways.

Best,

Greg
David Barnett
2009-04-17 14:55:49 UTC
Permalink
Not giving money will not change the FSF. They're ideology driven and will
find a way to get the money or work with less money. Getting projects to
move away from GPL would be a far more effective way influence the FSF.

-Dave
Post by Greg Grossmeier
Post by Robert Citek
You might want to let the FSF know about your decision. If they
change their ways, you could reconsider. If they don't, then it
confirms your decision.
I, too, should make my decision to not renew known.
I see this as part of a larger institutional problem at the FSF. I
have witnessed an FSF employee completely derail a valid discussion on
a mailing list by replying to EVERY SINGLE email that said "linux"
with a 3 paragraph why-you-need-to-say-GNU/Linux reply. Now, I can
sympathize with wanting others to say GNU/Linux, but, mailing list
etiquette is also important. This list was also for a natural friend
organization of the FSF, but since this employee did this, and did it
in an unfriendly way, the relationship between these two organizations
is now anything but friendly.
Maybe someone should start a "Quit Making Us Look Bad" campaign to get
the FSF to change their ways.
Best,
Greg
--
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https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-mi
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Robert Citek
2009-04-17 15:20:39 UTC
Permalink
I have no issue with the GPL or its variants. In fact, I admire them
for keeping such lofty ideals. However, I do take issue with their
"marketing" tactics.

On the other hand, the good thing about the FSF being so far out there
is that it makes the rest of us look normal. Otherwise, we would be
the fringe. :)

Regards,
- Robert
Post by David Barnett
Not giving money will not change the FSF. They're ideology driven and will
find a way to get the money or work with less money. Getting projects to
move away from GPL would be a far more effective way influence the FSF.
Wolfger
2009-04-17 15:44:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Barnett
Not giving money will not change the FSF. They're ideology driven and will
find a way to get the money or work with less money. Getting projects to
move away from GPL would be a far more effective way influence the FSF.
But I *like* the GPL...

The root question here is "how do you get fanatics to stop acting all
fanatical?". If we can answer that question, we can solve problems
much, much bigger than the FSF.

We need to treat them the way normal churches treat fanatical
churches. Which, so far as I can tell, is to mostly ignore them, and
answer any criticism of them with "that isn't us". They need to be
shunned.
--
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
http://twitter.com/wolfger
http://identi.ca/wolfger

The world is a mess, and I just... need to rule it.
David Barnett
2009-04-17 15:49:12 UTC
Permalink
I'm bot saying to abandon the ideals of the gpl. But, using the gpl supports
the fsf. There are no lack of similar licences.
Not giving money will...
But I *like* the GPL...

The root question here is "how do you get fanatics to stop acting all
fanatical?". If we can answer that question, we can solve problems
much, much bigger than the FSF.

We need to treat them the way normal churches treat fanatical
churches. Which, so far as I can tell, is to mostly ignore them, and
answer any criticism of them with "that isn't us". They need to be
shunned.

-- Wolfger http://wolfger.wordpress.com/ http://twitter.com/wolfger
http://identi.ca/wolfger The ...

ubuntu-us-mi mailing list ubuntu-us-mi at lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or
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Josh Panter
2009-04-17 15:47:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Grossmeier
Maybe someone should start a "Quit Making Us Look Bad" campaign to get
the FSF to change their ways.
I, a part-time-at-best level of activity member in this whole crazy
Ubuntu-sphere, think that is a great idea.

Josh
Wolfger
2009-04-17 15:57:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Josh Panter
Post by Greg Grossmeier
Maybe someone should start a "Quit Making Us Look Bad" campaign to get
the FSF to change their ways.
I, a part-time-at-best level of activity member in this whole crazy
Ubuntu-sphere, think that is a great idea.
I'd climb aboard that train.

On a semi-related note... there's a lot of Microsoft bashers out
there. Hell, I'm often one of them. But wouldn't it be better if we
took a page from their book: embrace and extend? I think one of
Ubuntu's most powerful weapons is Wubi, letting people install Ubuntu
right there inside the Windows OS.
--
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
http://twitter.com/wolfger
http://identi.ca/wolfger

The world is a mess, and I just... need to rule it.
Josh Panter
2009-04-17 16:03:07 UTC
Permalink
Wubi has actually been the catalyst for me in many occasions to get
people to let me go ahead and do a full install! They hear about the
greatness of wubi, and assume Ubuntu must be just awesome and let all
worries go, it's neat...

Embrace and extend is much better than to just resist. Wine, Wubi, dual
booting, these things are great for showing people how much the whole
Linux concept wraps itself around everything it encounters and opens up
more possibilities. It's good stuff, I agree.
Post by Wolfger
Post by Josh Panter
Post by Greg Grossmeier
Maybe someone should start a "Quit Making Us Look Bad" campaign to get
the FSF to change their ways.
I, a part-time-at-best level of activity member in this whole crazy
Ubuntu-sphere, think that is a great idea.
I'd climb aboard that train.
On a semi-related note... there's a lot of Microsoft bashers out
there. Hell, I'm often one of them. But wouldn't it be better if we
took a page from their book: embrace and extend? I think one of
Ubuntu's most powerful weapons is Wubi, letting people install Ubuntu
right there inside the Windows OS.
--
Wolfger
http://wolfger.wordpress.com/
http://twitter.com/wolfger
http://identi.ca/wolfger
The world is a mess, and I just... need to rule it.
Robert Citek
2009-04-17 16:17:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wolfger
On a semi-related note... there's a lot of Microsoft bashers out
there. Hell, I'm often one of them. But wouldn't it be better if we
took a page from their book: embrace and extend? I think one of
Ubuntu's most powerful weapons is Wubi, letting people install Ubuntu
right there inside the Windows OS.
Next time I'm in MI I'm buying you a beer (or whatever your favorite
beverage is.) Turning MS's strategy on itself is a great idea.
Bashing MS just makes the bashers look silly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish

Regards,
- Robert
t jagoda
2009-04-17 16:35:10 UTC
Permalink
I am pleased to see such a productive conversation come out of my angered
ranting! =D

Lets all start our own "Winux" distribution now. =P
Post by Robert Citek
Post by Wolfger
On a semi-related note... there's a lot of Microsoft bashers out
there. Hell, I'm often one of them. But wouldn't it be better if we
took a page from their book: embrace and extend? I think one of
Ubuntu's most powerful weapons is Wubi, letting people install Ubuntu
right there inside the Windows OS.
Next time I'm in MI I'm buying you a beer (or whatever your favorite
beverage is.) Turning MS's strategy on itself is a great idea.
Bashing MS just makes the bashers look silly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish
Regards,
- Robert
--
ubuntu-us-mi mailing list
ubuntu-us-mi at lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-mi
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David Barnett
2009-04-17 16:46:23 UTC
Permalink
Winux would destroy the community! It must be lindix xp!

On Apr 17, 2009 12:36 PM, "t jagoda" <spam.goes.here48048 at gmail.com> wrote:

I am pleased to see such a productive conversation come out of my angered
ranting! =D

Lets all start our own "Winux" distribution now. =P

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 12:17 PM, Robert Citek <robert.citek at gmail.com>
wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 1...

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t jagoda
2009-04-17 16:55:21 UTC
Permalink
Lindix XP Pro!
Post by David Barnett
Winux would destroy the community! It must be lindix xp!
I am pleased to see such a productive conversation come out of my angered
ranting! =D
Lets all start our own "Winux" distribution now. =P
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 12:17 PM, Robert Citek <robert.citek at gmail.com>
wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 1...
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Ben Rousch
2009-04-17 17:12:57 UTC
Permalink
I REALLY hope you mean GNU/Lindix XP Pro

:P

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 12:55 PM, t jagoda
Post by t jagoda
Lindix XP Pro!
Post by David Barnett
Winux would destroy the community! It must be lindix xp!
t jagoda
2009-04-17 17:28:03 UTC
Permalink
I e-smack you, sir. =(
Post by Ben Rousch
I REALLY hope you mean GNU/Lindix XP Pro
:P
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 12:55 PM, t jagoda
Post by t jagoda
Lindix XP Pro!
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 12:46 PM, David Barnett <dhbarnett at gmail.com>
Post by David Barnett
Winux would destroy the community! It must be lindix xp!
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Matt Aurand
2009-04-17 17:37:47 UTC
Permalink
I found the best way to make fun of the GNU/Linux people is to put GNU
GNU/in GNU/front GNU/of GNU/word
Post by t jagoda
I e-smack you, sir. =(
Post by Ben Rousch
I REALLY hope you mean GNU/Lindix XP Pro
:P
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 12:55 PM, t jagoda
Post by t jagoda
Lindix XP Pro!
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 12:46 PM, David Barnett <dhbarnett at gmail.com>
Post by David Barnett
Winux would destroy the community! It must be lindix xp!
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Ben Rousch
2009-04-17 17:40:03 UTC
Permalink
I hope you e-smacked my bottom, because I would not feel it on my face
through my mighty GNU/beard.
Post by t jagoda
I e-smack you, sir. =(
Post by Ben Rousch
I REALLY hope you mean GNU/Lindix XP Pro
:P
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 12:55 PM, t jagoda
Post by t jagoda
Lindix XP Pro!
Post by David Barnett
Winux would destroy the community! It must be lindix xp!
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t jagoda
2009-04-17 17:44:31 UTC
Permalink
We should compose a letter to the FSF, sign it en masse, and then deliver it
in a hazmat suit.

=D
Post by Ben Rousch
I hope you e-smacked my bottom, because I would not feel it on my face
through my mighty GNU/beard.
Post by t jagoda
I e-smack you, sir. =(
Post by Ben Rousch
I REALLY hope you mean GNU/Lindix XP Pro
:P
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 12:55 PM, t jagoda
Post by t jagoda
Lindix XP Pro!
Post by David Barnett
Winux would destroy the community! It must be lindix xp!
--
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Greg Grossmeier
2009-04-19 19:04:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by t jagoda
We should compose a letter to the FSF, sign it en masse, and then deliver it
in a hazmat suit.
<Warning: Long email>

While I like that idea (and I know someone who has a hazmat suit
connection) I think we can do something on a little larger scale.
What is something that tends to produce a lot of chatter on the
various blog Planets? Memes. Love them or hate them, they get people
sharing and talking.

My off the cuff and not completely thought out proposal: a "why I
don't support the actions of the FSF, but their licenses are cool"
blog meme. (We may need a shorter name)

But before people start publicly saying I'm a FSF basher and I hate
freedom: I do really really really like the GPL and the AGPL licenses.
I am a fan of copyleft, which is why my Creative Commons license of
choice is CC:BY-SA. I love the tools, but the ads selling the tools
suck.

<start of comparison between FSF and CC, note: I am employed by CC>

What did the FSF do wrong that Creative Commons did right? Let the
fanatics be the face of the organization. I'm not only speaking of
RMS, but also the people employed by the FSF who will argue untill
everyone is blue about "Linux vs GNU/Linux."

Creative Commons, however, is agnostic about how you talk about it, as
long as it is truthful. You can say that the NoDerivative license is
a freedom-hating license, and we'll shrug our shoulders and say
"sure."[0]

The one thing you can't do, because the issue never presents itself,
is say that we are alienating ANYONE. Creative Commons operates under
the belief that any kind of change towards freedom is a good change.
So we work with Google, we work with Yahoo, we work with Apple, we
even work with Microsoft to get some small changes made (yes,
Microsoft uses some CC licenses for some textual content). Hell, we
even partnered with Nike to promote a more open method of sharing
patents among corporations (why we are dealing with patents is beyond
me, we are a copyright/licensing group).

To reiterate my main point: Creative Commons does not alienate any
party based on some definition of freedom. It is your content so it
is your choice. This is the main difference between CC and the FSF.
Two organizations that are very similar in mission (to encourage
free/open culture) and method (provide the licenses to use).

How does this alienation by the FSF happen? It happens by the FSF
focusing on "enemies" and not focusing on what really matters;
strengthening your community. Simply having a BadVista or 7 Deadly
Sins of Windows campaign alienates the very people you are supposed to
court. This is why you'll never see a BadPublisher or 7 Deadly Sins
of All Rights Reserved campaign from Creative Commons. And this is
why the Creative Commons blog is full of us pimping other projects
that use Creative Commons licenses. It's a "look at all this cool
stuff that use our licenses" blog and because of that it creates a
very positive energy around CC.

This is also why I like planet.ubuntu.com; I get to see people
positively pimping cool projects that relate to Ubuntu.

So next time you see someone negatively reacting to a FSF campaign
take that opportunity to show them the positive side of the Free/Open
Source Software group of awesome people: tell them about the awesome
software you get to use, tell them about how cool the people are in
the community, hell, tell them about the awesome release parties we
have for each release of Ubuntu, like the one this coming Saturday at
Corner Brewery in Ypsi (plug!).

Be positive, and we'll win. Winning is not about defeating the
"other," it is about your team being supported the best people.


- Greg


[0] And just so we're clear, Creative Commons does approve of the
Freedom Defined webpage and we even mark two of our licenses as
"Approved for Free Cultural Works" (the Attribution-only and
Attribution-ShareAlike licenses). http://freedomdefined.org/Definition
Greg Grossmeier
2009-04-19 22:07:02 UTC
Permalink
Sorry about replying to myself, but my buddy and I just had a good IM
conversation after he read my email. It is pasted below for your
(possible) benefit:
-----------

Pete: okay. here's my slant. you say (and you're right) that the FSF
is fronted by the "radical wing of the party," so to speak.

Me: so to speak, yes

Pete: and you're right. but that's the point of the FSF.
Pete: let's make a party politics analogy.

Me: (I should have also added that we do NEED the uber radical wing
of the party, but not as the official spokespeople)
Me: and I should have put official in scare quotes right there

Pete: we need dennis kucinich to keep barack obama honest.

Me: that is totally correct

Pete: i don't particularly want a "department of peace," but i'm glad
he's out there pushing the idea.

***Me nods in full agreement

Pete: even my favorite punching bag, peta. i think they're scum. but
they're scum we need.

Me: I think the only major difference between this analogy and the
FLOSS community situation is that Dennis Kucinich does not provide the
most commonly used tool for the left/progressives. FSF provides the
GPL. Dennis just provides a message, and no one is dependent on
something he created.

Pete: that's how free software works. if you don't like it, fork it
(as cc sort of did, not so much with the content but kind of a "fork
of the message")

Me: in a way, right.

Pete: and that's good.

Me: but, we are pretty much path-dependent now with the GPL
Me: and by the very nature of the GPL, it is neigh-impossible to
switch to another license

Pete: because although you call the vista campaign "divisive" (and
you're right), some people are going to react better to that.
sometimes you need to get in people's faces.
Pete: sometimes not.
Pete: but to say that you're doing it right and the FSF is doing it
wrong is overly simplistic.

Me: very true
Me: I like the way that CC promotes itself and its message more than
how the FSF does the same.

Pete: i see this at work a lot. all of those approaches have their
place, with different markets and different people with different
temperments.

Me: I was bad when I used a right vs wrong mentality in that email

Pete: and to me, i think the cc soft-sells a little too much for my
taste. but at the same time, you reach people that i don't reach.
***Me nods
Pete: (i realize i'm flopping back and forth here with "you" and "me"
and "fsf" and "cc", but i think you catch my meaning)

Me: (indeed)

Pete: i agree that kucinich was a poor choice for that analogy, btw.
Pete: one more thing on this topic. what cc does would not be
happening without the fsf taking a hardline in the beginning.

Me: Oh, most definitely. When Creative Commons first started, there
was a clear and stated relationship between it and the FSF
Me: by "relationship" I mean "influence/inspiration" not
"endorsement"

Pete: much better analogy: the civil rights movement.

Me: and analogies are, practically by definition, made with poor
choices :)

Pete: as we have discussed at length many times.

Me: hmmmm *pondering that analogy for a minute*

Pete: without the hard line set by the nation of islam and malcom x,
all the sit-ins in the world do nothing. as we learned during the iraq
war. all marches, nothing to back it up, and we achieved precisely
dick.

Me: Malcom X ~= RMS, MLK ~= CC (valid comparison?)

Pete: sure, as long as we're butchering history, i guess :)

Me: haha

Pete: yeah, i'm not gonna reply to that thread, but you can certainly
post this.

Me: cool
Jay R. Wren
2009-04-20 00:27:27 UTC
Permalink
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Greg Grossmeier" <greg at grossmeier.net>
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 3:04 PM
To: "Ubuntu Michigan Local Community Team" <ubuntu-us-mi at lists.ubuntu.com>
Subject: Re: [ubuntu-us-mi] wtf?!
Post by Greg Grossmeier
The one thing you can't do, because the issue never presents itself,
is say that we are alienating ANYONE. Creative Commons operates under
the belief that any kind of change towards freedom is a good change.
So we work with Google, we work with Yahoo, we work with Apple, we
even work with Microsoft to get some small changes made (yes,
Microsoft uses some CC licenses for some textual content). Hell, we
even partnered with Nike to promote a more open method of sharing
patents among corporations (why we are dealing with patents is beyond
me, we are a copyright/licensing group).
I really like the topic of the thread and just have a comment about my
favorite open source software backing corporation: Microsoft. Yes Microsoft,
one of the largest donors to the Apache Foundation. I made a joke the other
day that it won't be long until MS gives more source to the .NET world than
Sun did to Java. At the rate they are releasing open source (MS-PL is an OSS
certified license) it will be in the next few years.

One parallel which I find funny to the discussion is the words of one person
v. the actions. FSF does put out some awesome software under GPL. RMS ruins
it with rhetoric. Microsoft puts out some reasonably ok software under MS-PL
and MS-RL. Steve Balmer ruins it with rhetoric. Balmer uses very stupid
words like "viral license" yet MS has its own version of a viral license
also OSS approved call the MS reciprocal license.

IMO it's a good life lesson. Let actions speak louder than words, even when
those words are spoken by a huge leader of some organization.
--
Jay

Jay R. Wren
2009-04-17 17:53:20 UTC
Permalink
Why do you think I love Mono so much? It is the ultimate Embrace and Extend
by open source of an MS founded technology. Its already extending into some
awesome places. 90+ iPhone apps and SecondLife are places MS could never go.

As for the extinguish step... well, it has never been done.
--
Jay

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Robert Citek" <robert.citek at gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 12:17 PM
To: "Ubuntu Michigan Local Community Team" <ubuntu-us-mi at lists.ubuntu.com>
Subject: Re: [ubuntu-us-mi] wtf?!
Post by Robert Citek
Post by Wolfger
On a semi-related note... there's a lot of Microsoft bashers out
there. Hell, I'm often one of them. But wouldn't it be better if we
took a page from their book: embrace and extend? I think one of
Ubuntu's most powerful weapons is Wubi, letting people install Ubuntu
right there inside the Windows OS.
Next time I'm in MI I'm buying you a beer (or whatever your favorite
beverage is.) Turning MS's strategy on itself is a great idea.
Bashing MS just makes the bashers look silly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish
Regards,
- Robert
--
ubuntu-us-mi mailing list
ubuntu-us-mi at lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-mi
Jeff Hanson
2009-04-17 18:49:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wolfger
On a semi-related note... there's a lot of Microsoft bashers out
there. Hell, I'm often one of them. But wouldn't it be better if we
took a page from their book: embrace and extend? I think one of
Ubuntu's most powerful weapons is Wubi, letting people install Ubuntu
right there inside the Windows OS.
I've tried promoting the same with some of the the Detroit-area LUGs
when they are planning outreach and promotional activities. I usually
lose to the ones who want to invite the public in for a burning of M$
staff in effigy. Being stubbornly against something scares off
moderates who could be converted. I don't have a problem with fixing
Windows systems and installing FF, OOo, and Gimp along with a demo of
Linux but when proposed they start whinging about "liabilities" and
the like.
Robert Citek
2009-04-18 05:29:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff Hanson
Being stubbornly against something scares off
moderates who could be converted.
In addition to being converted they could become part of the
distribution network. Scare them off and it's harder to grow the
network.
Post by Jeff Hanson
I don't have a problem with fixing Windows systems and installing FF, OOo, and Gimp along with a demo of
Linux but when proposed they start whinging about "liabilities" and the like.
My solution to that is to not install FF, OOo, Gimp or other software
for Windows. Instead, I use Portable Apps:

http://portableapps.com/

In fact, what I do is uncompress the downloaded apps to a folder on my
Windows desktop, burn that folder to a CD, and distribute the CD. If
people want to run the app they can simply copy the folder to their
desktop or USB key and run it. No installation required.

Regards,
- Robert
Kevin B. O'Brien
2009-04-19 21:59:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff Hanson
Post by Wolfger
On a semi-related note... there's a lot of Microsoft bashers out
there. Hell, I'm often one of them. But wouldn't it be better if we
took a page from their book: embrace and extend? I think one of
Ubuntu's most powerful weapons is Wubi, letting people install Ubuntu
right there inside the Windows OS.
I've tried promoting the same with some of the the Detroit-area LUGs
when they are planning outreach and promotional activities. I usually
lose to the ones who want to invite the public in for a burning of M$
staff in effigy. Being stubbornly against something scares off
moderates who could be converted. I don't have a problem with fixing
Windows systems and installing FF, OOo, and Gimp along with a demo of
Linux but when proposed they start whinging about "liabilities" and
the like.
Well, I think we avoided it at the Washtenaw group, at least.

Regards,
--
Kevin B. O'Brien TANSTAAFL
nadreck at palain.com Linux User #333216

"Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know." Montaigne
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