Discussion:
[ubuntu-us-mi] Might switch; questions...
Larry David
2009-01-12 19:28:51 UTC
Permalink
Hi everyone - just subbed to the list. I am hoping someone(s) here
can answer a few questions for me.

First, to help better understand where I'm coming from, a little
background. I studied EE in the 80's, using DOS, Mac, and Unix
machines. DOS was ok, Mac was cool, and Unix was awesome (and
Windows, when it arrived, was a blatant and poor rip-off of Mac OS -
and still is!) Later in the 90's I worked at GM for a while and used
a proprietary GUI (maybe by HP?) over Unix, and I was in heaven.
Terminal right there when I needed it (which wasn't all the time - I
was a user, not an admin or programmer), and a nice, uncluttered, non-
resource-wasting desktop - with switchable workspaces(!) so I could
have all kinds of windows up at once and stay organized.

At home I have had Macs since 98 or so - haven't owned a windows
machine since, to my great joy. I like Macs a lot, but there are
drawbacks, not the least of which is the price. (Also Apple's social/
political worldview is sometimes in conflict with my own, but that
has yet to keep me from buying their stuff.) I think Apple computers
are worth every penny they charge, but they are like Cadillacs, and I
drive a Daewoo Kalos (called an Aveo in the US). :-)

So my G4 powerbook is showing its age and I am thinking of a new
laptop. I use it for work (teaching math part-time, 80 hours a week,
since losing my job along with half the state), and rely on it
daily. I can't really afford a new macbook (though they look really
cool) - I've considered a refurbished one, but they are still a
little pricey for me. Long story short, I checked into Linux again
(knew about it for years, but never had a reason to investigate as I
was happy with Macs when I could afford them). Linux on a cheaper
laptop sounds promising; if it works and if I don't have to become a
programmer get software and hardware to work with it. (I'm also kind
of excited by the idea of FOSS - mostly the open source part, but
won't take the time to get into that now.)

Which leads to my questions:

1. I am under the impression that Linux (ubuntu in particular) is
much like the GUI-on-top-of-Unix OS that I loved at GM - only on my
little laptop and not a $30k workstation, and its "GNU Not Unix", and
its open source, etc.. - but the general idea is the same. Is this
the case? (This aspect of OSX is the main thing I like about it,
though the GUI is more than a bit overdone for my tastes.)

2. Does ubuntu use less system resources for the GUI in particular,
and generally have less bloat, than Windows and/or Mac OS? (I am
thinking about the built-in obsolescence of proprietary OS machines
and hoping that a Linux machine will have a longer lifespan and be
more tweekable to that end.)

3. Is there a good web filter for Linux? I use K-9 web protection
on my macs and it seems to work fine (but they don't seem to have a
Linux version, though it is freeware) - I like to have a filter to
help me and my kids avoid all the crap I don't want to run into on
the web...

4. Does anyone here do music on a Linux machine? What SW/HW do you
use? Ardour looks cool, but its hard to believe that it could be
really useful *and* free. (I use DP 4 on my G4s with an 828mkII, I
don't need all of its capabilities - but I do need a MIDI sequencer
and 24+ tracks of audio, with plug-in capability - and the ability to
use soft-synths would be nice too.) I have checked the alsa and
ffado sites for HW compatibility and all the devices listed seem
several years old - and many of them are "unkown" or "untested",
which makes me leery to be the guinea pig. At this point I would
still have my G4 desktop, but I am thinking about switching all my
machines to Linux, since I don't want to buy a new machine/software
every few years just to be able to do the same thing I could years
ago. (This question may best be taken off-list if people don't want
to hear about it - I don't know how much traffic there is, etc.)

Well if you've gotten this far, thanks for reading!

Larry David
David Barnett
2009-01-12 22:01:17 UTC
Permalink
Hi Larry,

I'll answer what I can on your questions inline.
Post by Larry David
1. I am under the impression that Linux (ubuntu in particular) is
much like the GUI-on-top-of-Unix OS that I loved at GM - only on my
little laptop and not a $30k workstation, and its "GNU Not Unix", and
its open source, etc.. - but the general idea is the same. Is this
the case? (This aspect of OSX is the main thing I like about it,
though the GUI is more than a bit overdone for my tastes.)
Linux its self is not really a GUI on top of Unix. It's the kernel.

Depending on what distribution of linux you run you will see a
different default GUI and regardless of what distribution you
run you will be able to try different GUIs. From the more
heavyweight and featureful Gnome and KDE to very lightweight
window managers like TWM and FVWM (there are dozens of
different options).

I find that linux works much better on older hardware then either
windows or OSX depending on what I expect it to do.
Post by Larry David
2. Does ubuntu use less system resources for the GUI in particular,
and generally have less bloat, than Windows and/or Mac OS? (I am
thinking about the built-in obsolescence of proprietary OS machines
and hoping that a Linux machine will have a longer lifespan and be
more tweekable to that end.)
I use ubuntu at home with Gnome and even though I run a lot of services on
it
it runs much smoother then just a barebones Windows installation. My mac
runs
speedy with OSX, but I have a brand new mac so it should! If you are a
tinkerer,
and it sounds like you are, then you can configure your linux installation
at a vast array of different efficiencies. Ubuntu is not the least resource
intensive
distribution, being designed more for ease of use, however it's really not
that heavyweight
and it's a great distribution to jump in with. Another advantage is that
Ubuntu
will run off of the CD (just burn, plop it in and reboot from cd) so you can
try it out
without installing it to your hard drive if it doesn't suit your needs,
nothing lost. I'm
not sure however if ubuntu will run on ppc chips. Someone here must know.
Post by Larry David
3. Is there a good web filter for Linux? I use K-9 web protection
on my macs and it seems to work fine (but they don't seem to have a
Linux version, though it is freeware) - I like to have a filter to
help me and my kids avoid all the crap I don't want to run into on
the web...
Someone else will have to answer this one.
Post by Larry David
4. Does anyone here do music on a Linux machine? What SW/HW do you
use? Ardour looks cool, but its hard to believe that it could be
really useful *and* free. (I use DP 4 on my G4s with an 828mkII, I
don't need all of its capabilities - but I do need a MIDI sequencer
and 24+ tracks of audio, with plug-in capability - and the ability to
use soft-synths would be nice too.) I have checked the alsa and
ffado sites for HW compatibility and all the devices listed seem
several years old - and many of them are "unkown" or "untested",
which makes me leery to be the guinea pig. At this point I would
still have my G4 desktop, but I am thinking about switching all my
machines to Linux, since I don't want to buy a new machine/software
every few years just to be able to do the same thing I could years
ago. (This question may best be taken off-list if people don't want
to hear about it - I don't know how much traffic there is, etc.)
There are no lack of media players for linux and mac hardware is pretty
standardized. I'd be surprised if someone hadn't written a driver.
Post by Larry David
Well if you've gotten this far, thanks for reading!
Larry David
Good luck!
Post by Larry David
--
ubuntu-us-mi mailing list
ubuntu-us-mi at lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-mi
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-mi/attachments/20090112/66f798fc/attachment.htm
Rene Hogan
2009-01-12 21:43:46 UTC
Permalink
Good evening Mr Larry David

A quick answer is go for it. Ubuntu has everything that you could want or
need plus there is one hellva a support staff willing to work with you. They
call themselves the Ubuntu community. I have even resurrected a six year old
computer using Ubuntu 8-10 OS. All this when Microsoft retired the "Me" OS
and my little chugger did not have enought umph to run Windows Vista. I am
not a big fan of Mac OS's since they almost have the same business model as
Microsoft.

You can even go live with the OS before you make the decision to install. I
think you will be pleasantly surprised.

Please pay the community a visit then settle in.

Hogi

hogi at comcast.net
Post by Larry David
Hi everyone - just subbed to the list. I am hoping someone(s) here
can answer a few questions for me.
First, to help better understand where I'm coming from, a little
background. I studied EE in the 80's, using DOS, Mac, and Unix
machines. DOS was ok, Mac was cool, and Unix was awesome (and
Windows, when it arrived, was a blatant and poor rip-off of Mac OS -
and still is!) Later in the 90's I worked at GM for a while and used
a proprietary GUI (maybe by HP?) over Unix, and I was in heaven.
Terminal right there when I needed it (which wasn't all the time - I
was a user, not an admin or programmer), and a nice, uncluttered, non-
resource-wasting desktop - with switchable workspaces(!) so I could
have all kinds of windows up at once and stay organized.
At home I have had Macs since 98 or so - haven't owned a windows
machine since, to my great joy. I like Macs a lot, but there are
drawbacks, not the least of which is the price. (Also Apple's social/
political worldview is sometimes in conflict with my own, but that
has yet to keep me from buying their stuff.) I think Apple computers
are worth every penny they charge, but they are like Cadillacs, and I
drive a Daewoo Kalos (called an Aveo in the US). :-)
So my G4 powerbook is showing its age and I am thinking of a new
laptop. I use it for work (teaching math part-time, 80 hours a week,
since losing my job along with half the state), and rely on it
daily. I can't really afford a new macbook (though they look really
cool) - I've considered a refurbished one, but they are still a
little pricey for me. Long story short, I checked into Linux again
(knew about it for years, but never had a reason to investigate as I
was happy with Macs when I could afford them). Linux on a cheaper
laptop sounds promising; if it works and if I don't have to become a
programmer get software and hardware to work with it. (I'm also kind
of excited by the idea of FOSS - mostly the open source part, but
won't take the time to get into that now.)
1. I am under the impression that Linux (ubuntu in particular) is
much like the GUI-on-top-of-Unix OS that I loved at GM - only on my
little laptop and not a $30k workstation, and its "GNU Not Unix", and
its open source, etc.. - but the general idea is the same. Is this
the case? (This aspect of OSX is the main thing I like about it,
though the GUI is more than a bit overdone for my tastes.)
2. Does ubuntu use less system resources for the GUI in particular,
and generally have less bloat, than Windows and/or Mac OS? (I am
thinking about the built-in obsolescence of proprietary OS machines
and hoping that a Linux machine will have a longer lifespan and be
more tweekable to that end.)
3. Is there a good web filter for Linux? I use K-9 web protection
on my macs and it seems to work fine (but they don't seem to have a
Linux version, though it is freeware) - I like to have a filter to
help me and my kids avoid all the crap I don't want to run into on
the web...
4. Does anyone here do music on a Linux machine? What SW/HW do you
use? Ardour looks cool, but its hard to believe that it could be
really useful *and* free. (I use DP 4 on my G4s with an 828mkII, I
don't need all of its capabilities - but I do need a MIDI sequencer
and 24+ tracks of audio, with plug-in capability - and the ability to
use soft-synths would be nice too.) I have checked the alsa and
ffado sites for HW compatibility and all the devices listed seem
several years old - and many of them are "unkown" or "untested",
which makes me leery to be the guinea pig. At this point I would
still have my G4 desktop, but I am thinking about switching all my
machines to Linux, since I don't want to buy a new machine/software
every few years just to be able to do the same thing I could years
ago. (This question may best be taken off-list if people don't want
to hear about it - I don't know how much traffic there is, etc.)
Well if you've gotten this far, thanks for reading!
Larry David
--
ubuntu-us-mi mailing list
ubuntu-us-mi at lists.ubuntu.com
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-mi
--
R.L.Hogan
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-mi/attachments/20090112/bea1875a/attachment-0001.htm
Mark
2009-01-14 01:50:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry David
Hi everyone - just subbed to the list. I am hoping someone(s) here
can answer a few questions for me.
First, ...
and still is!) Later in the 90's I worked at GM for a while and used
a proprietary GUI (maybe by HP?) over Unix, and I was in heaven.
...
little pricey for me. Long story short, I checked into Linux again
(knew about it for years, but never had a reason to investigate as I
was happy with Macs when I could afford them). Linux on a cheaper
laptop sounds promising; if it works and if I don't have to become a
programmer get software and hardware to work with it.
1. I am under the impression that Linux (ubuntu in particular) is
much like the GUI-on-top-of-Unix OS that I loved at GM
It's not. It is a complete rewrite of Unix for desktop PCs (think
software clone similar to Compaq being a hardware clone of the IBM-PC).
Since then (1991), it has grown and far exceeds the original Unix base.
Post by Larry David
and its "GNU Not Unix", and
GNU is really a philosophy and legal license rather than any specific
piece of software. In the 80's, programmers using the GNU philosophy
began rewriting Unix and then releasing to the public under the GNU
license. Given the open source licensing, that rewrite was soon
incorporated into Linux, which adopted the license.
Post by Larry David
its open source, etc.. - but the general idea is the same. Is this
the case?
See answer above.
Post by Larry David
2. Does ubuntu use less system resources for the GUI in particular,
and generally have less bloat, than Windows and/or Mac OS?
It can be.... Given that Unix is very modular, in essence, it just
becomes a matter of turning off certain modules to shrink the size and
horsepower needed. That being said, if you turn ON all of the bells and
whistles (3-D desktop graphics, etc) it will require a bit of
horsepower. But, again, you don't need these and they can be turned
off. Also, given the modularity, alternatives of any given component in
Linux are available. Specifically, several window managers
(traditionally a memory hog) are available for low memory/cpu
environments. In really low memory environments, you could even run
without a window manager. Lots of consumer devices do just that, think
home routers, cell phones, the Roomba vacuum, etc.
Post by Larry David
(I am
thinking about the built-in obsolescence of proprietary OS machines
and hoping that a Linux machine will have a longer lifespan and be
more tweekable to that end.)
I have several old (pentium II - 200Mhz class) machines currently
running with Linux. That should give you an idea of the answer to the
above.
Post by Larry David
3. Is there a good web filter for Linux? I use K-9 web protection
on my macs and it seems to work fine (but they don't seem to have a
Linux version, though it is freeware) - I like to have a filter to
help me and my kids avoid all the crap I don't want to run into on
the web...
YES!! Although not in the same vein as OSX & Windows. In Linux, web
filtering is done at the firewall and/or the browser level, not at the
desktop level. Personally, I use a combination of IPCOP (a specific
firewall Linux distro) and Firefox with Adblock+, all of which are OS.
There are email filters available. I have IPCOP with Squid and URL
filter installed on one of the Pentium II machines (with 168MB of
memory, IIRC). Works wonders, also relieves the desktops from the chore
of filtering.
Post by Larry David
4. Does anyone here do music on a Linux machine? What SW/HW do you
use?
I'm only a casual user of music players so I don't have any good
recommendations.

Mark
Matt Michielsen
2009-01-14 21:10:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark
Post by Larry David
3. Is there a good web filter for Linux? I use K-9 web protection
on my macs and it seems to work fine (but they don't seem to have a
Linux version, though it is freeware) - I like to have a filter to
help me and my kids avoid all the crap I don't want to run into on
the web...
YES!! Although not in the same vein as OSX & Windows. In Linux, web
filtering is done at the firewall and/or the browser level, not at the
desktop level. Personally, I use a combination of IPCOP (a specific
firewall Linux distro) and Firefox with Adblock+, all of which are OS.
There are email filters available. I have IPCOP with Squid and URL
filter installed on one of the Pentium II machines (with 168MB of
memory, IIRC). Works wonders, also relieves the desktops from the chore
of filtering.
You might want to take a look at
DansGuardian<http://dansguardian.org/?page=whatisdg>.
I've never used it, but it looks like it might fit your needs.

-mm
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-mi/attachments/20090114/c50c7b6e/attachment.htm
Mark
2009-01-15 02:32:08 UTC
Permalink
DansGaurdian uses a predefined list with very little control on our end.
I use the Shalla Secure list, the admin can pick the categories to
filter and URL Filter allows both individual blacklisting and whitelisting.

Mark
On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 8:50 PM, Mark <mark.klug at ccagent.com
Post by Larry David
3. Is there a good web filter for Linux? I use K-9 web protection
on my macs and it seems to work fine (but they don't seem to have a
Linux version, though it is freeware) - I like to have a filter to
help me and my kids avoid all the crap I don't want to run into on
the web...
YES!! Although not in the same vein as OSX & Windows. In Linux, web
filtering is done at the firewall and/or the browser level, not at the
desktop level. Personally, I use a combination of IPCOP (a specific
firewall Linux distro) and Firefox with Adblock+, all of which are OS.
There are email filters available. I have IPCOP with Squid and URL
filter installed on one of the Pentium II machines (with 168MB of
memory, IIRC). Works wonders, also relieves the desktops from the chore
of filtering.
You might want to take a look at DansGuardian
<http://dansguardian.org/?page=whatisdg>. I've never used it, but it
looks like it might fit your needs.
-mm
Loading...